Podcast – Inside the Head of a Collector – In Conversation with Prof. Shirley Mueller

Professor Mueller is a medical doctor and the author of Inside the Head of a Collector: Neuropsychological Forces at Play (2019). As well as being board-certified in neurology and psychiatry, Professor Mueller is an internationally known collector and scholar of Chinese export porcelain. In a wide-ranging conversation, she spoke with ARENI about who becomes a collector, and the psychological pleasures and benefits of collecting.

ARENI:

Why does someone collect, and what are the main motivations fuelling the collector’s drive?

Professor Mueller:

People collect because it gives them joy and pleasure, which is actually the driver for all of us, for everything we do. We want to feel good about ourselves. Anything that gives us pleasure enhances this area and collecting is an extension, essentially, of life. It isn’t as casual as some people who collect now, and again. It actually has to do with a need to collect certain articles which fit into the collection.

People who collect generally have a genetic predisposition. They have some environmental exposure to objects or collecting that influences them and some life experiences.

Prof. Shirley Mueller

ARENI:

One of the things that was interesting is that for a very long time. scientific thought was that collecting was actually filling a gap, maybe an emotional gap. But you demonstrate that it’s slightly different. And neuroscience has been a lot of help to break away from that previous analysis.

Professor Mueller:

Prior to the 1990s, there was no scientific way to look at the brain when people were thinking. In the 1990s, magnetic resonance imaging came about. A very sophisticated twist on it was what’s called ‘functional magnetic resonance imaging’, which means that when people are thinking, their brain can actually be visualized. Which means that our thoughts about buying can also be visualised.

And when we buy something, there is a fear contribution. Of course, we don’t want to be cheated. There’s definitely a pleasure contribution. There are many, many other contributions that have been identified using functional magnetic resonance imaging. But before the 1990s Freud and Muensterberger were the two major writers who wrote about why people collect. Freud was of the opinion that it was simply sublimation of libido. Muensterberger wrote a book in the very early 1990s, without having the benefit of functional magnetic imaging formation, that people who collected were deprived in childhood. Again, a very negative take.

Functional magnetic imaging took us into the scientific area.

ARENI:

It puts collecting not as something to fill the gap, but something as additional pleasure. But sometimes collecting can be obsession. Can you explain to us the difference between passion and a medical condition?

Professor Mueller:

Those who are passionate study the objects that they’re collecting. They may go to conferences, they go to antique shops, perhaps auctions, and they try to put together a cohesive collection which tells a story. Those who are obsessed can’t get collecting out of their mind. They can’t get the objects that they want out of their mind. And this kind of obsession means that they are thinking about what they want to collect to the exclusion of other areas in their life.

And then we move on to hoarders, which are totally in a different category. Hoarding probably has an organic basis. And the reason I say that, is because people who have had operations in a certain area of their brain can begin to collect worthless things, and keep them all over the house. They’d become hoarders after this operation; they weren’t before. So that suggests that there’s this area in the brain that predisposes to hoarding.

All of us have probably a collecting area to one degree or another, but in most people, probably three quarters of the people, it is nascent. It just never blossoms. But in about a third of the population in the United States, it comes forward and shows itself. And in most people, it’s the passion that shows itself. So, it’s a wonderful addition to a normal life.

ARENI:

Do you have one particular definition for collectors?

Professor Mueller:

A collector is someone who gathers objects beyond what is needed to decorate a home or a garden or whatever. They require extra space, like a closet or like a storage.

ARENI:

Does it have to be an object? Some people seem to collect degrees, for example. In the world of wine, there are loads of certifications that you can collect. Can knowledge be collected?

Professor Mueller:

Yes. It’s almost like collecting experiences. We are told that young people love to collect experiences. Those people who collect, let’s say, degrees, have the experience of going through the process of studying for, and then finally getting, the degree. They also have the degree. So, they have a double pleasure.

ARENI:

Can you be a collector without being an expert on your topic, or does they always go hand-in-hand?

Professor Mueller:

A collector is anyone who enjoys collecting, whether it be from time to time, or on a consistent basis. For me, the whole key is enjoyment, pleasure. And actually isn’t it wonderful to see little children. They might collect something they got at the museum, that says they’ve been to the museum. They might collect marbles. The question is, does that lead to full-blown collecting later? Evidently not always in the teenage years,

ARENI:

In your book you also talk about being a woman collector in the world of art and, and ceramics. And the same thing could be said for women wine collectors that are on the rise in particular areas of the world. For example, Asia is quite advanced for women, more than Europe and the United States. How does gender, age or race factor in?

Professor Mueller:

The key factor in order to be able to collect is monetary resources. Women with money have collected. People with money turn to collecting as a pastime and women are no exception. We believe that men take more risks when they collect than women, and women are more likely to collect an artist if they know that artist and feel positive toward that artist, which will be a very human trait. Men would be more likely to buy an item they thought would accrue in value, just as they would for an investment. I think there are differences, but they haven’t been proven conclusively. I’m going to study with someone from the University of Iowa and we call it the collectors’ study.

ARENI:

Where do we put the line between collectors and investors?

Professor Mueller:

Most collectors buy for love, but some, perhaps 25 to 30%, buy to make money only. They either have an advisor who says what he or she thinks will accrue in value, or they invest in a fund.

I feel like the investor collector loses a lot of the chance to really enjoy items. If that person hasn’t had the pleasure of selecting it and reading about it and learning about it, then from my point of view, he or she is losing part of the enjoyment.

Prof. Shirley Mueller

ARENI:

When we talk to fine wine collectors, most of them buy for three things. They buy to drink. Now they buy to lay down because, you know, there’s this notion with wine improves with time. Sometimes they buy to re-sell, just because the monetary value of the wine really improved and they’re happy because they made a good deal. They can re-sell to buy more, or because they’ve bought too much and they know they’re not going to be able to drink it all. My last question would be, based on your understanding on the brain and your very deep understanding on how collectors work: if you had to advise fine wine merchants on how to behave to maximise the relationship, what would it be?

Professor Mueller:

Buy the best that the dealer can and sell to the best clients that the dealer can. And if you can’t, tell the buyer where the buyer can get what he or she wants. Be reliable, by providing the commodity as described, so the transactions are totally transparent.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited.

For more information on Fine Wine Collectors:

• Our latest report – The Future of Fine Wine Consumers 2021 – focuses notably on High Net-Worth Individuals. To know more about the “Collector-Drinker” segment and to receive your full copy of the report, become a member today.
• Our mini series – Meeting the Collectors

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